In addition to hearing oral arguments in three cases, judges with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit met with students and faculty during a two-day visit to the Greensboro campus. Judges advised students to be ‘guardians of the rule of law.’
Elon University School of Law students had a front-row seat for the highest levels of the justice system when the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit heard oral arguments in the school’s Robert E. Long Courtroom.
This marked the second time Elon Law hosted Fourth Circuit hearings. The first was in 2018. The Hon. Albert Diaz, the Hon. Judge Paul V. Niemeyer and the Hon. Nicole G. Berner heard from counsel in three cases Thursday, May 15, 2025. Afterward, they met with students to offer insights into how appellate advocates can best prepare to argue cases and the importance of an independent and impartial judiciary.
“We are guided by the rule of law. That means we make the rules in advance and we follow them,” Niemeyer said. “If law students take anything away from this visit, let it be this: As an attorney, you are an officer of the court. You act as a guardian and a lynchpin of the rule of law.”
“No doubt, the future of our profession is in the courtroom today and at other law schools,” Diaz added.
The Fourth Circuit hears appeals from nine federal district courts in Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia, North Carolina and South Carolina, and from federal administrative agencies.
Cases heard by the three-judge panel included:
- Tessa Needham v. Merck & Co. Inc., a civil case originating in the Western District of North Carolina involving the Vaccine Act and whether the plaintiff’s complaint was improperly dismissed under those statutes;
- U.S. v. Carlisa Allen, a criminal case originating in the Middle District of North Carolina, with arguments over the sufficiency of evidence in drug and firearm-related offenses that led to a guilty verdict; and
- U.S. v. Johnathan Crawford, a criminal case arising from the Eastern District of North Carolina, questioning whether a waiver of appellate rights encompass a Fifth Amendment claim, and whether the District Court penalized the defendant for exercising Fifth Amendment rights.
Decisions in the cases will be made in the coming months. Elon Law students sat for those hearings in the courtroom and an overflow classroom with live audio.
“It was an honor to host the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit,” said Zak Kramer, dean of Elon Law. “What a remarkable opportunity for our students to see lawyering at this level and with such high stakes. Everyone involved — the judges, the lawyers, and the court staff — provided a masterclass for our students.”
What students said about the experience
Ivey Schofield L’25 is completing her residency-in-practice with Diaz’s office this trimester. Her duties as a clerk included creating briefings on some of the cases heard at Elon Law.
“Listening to oral arguments enabled me to better understand what kinds of questions Judge Diaz wants focused on,” Schofield said. “Seeing attorneys argue their cases is very helpful, because you get to see different ways to respond to judges’ questions.”
Frank Edwards L’25 was inspired by the judges’ perspectives on the rule of law and judicial system, and that they took the time to leave the bench and thank advocates following each of the arguments.
“It was a human moment in the proceeding and was a nice reminder that whether a judge or an advocate, these attorneys work together to preserve the same rights and law,” said Edwards, a Leadership Fellow who earned his undergraduate degree from George Mason University and is interested in appellate practice, juvenile law and criminal law. “The arguments I heard and interactions I had with the Fourth Circuit judges today are reminders of the value of a practice-based education, and I am grateful Elon Law gives us opportunities like this. Watching advocates in court and counselors in office shapes my approach to practice and encourages me to continue learning and refining my skills.”
First-year law students were amid preparations for oral arguments in their Legal Method and Communication courses.
“The timing of the court’s visit was excellent, as the first-year students are right now learning how to argue a case at the appellate court level,” said Associate Dean and Professor of Law Sue Liemer. “The Fourth Circuit judges made a point of thanking and shaking hands with every attorney who appeared before them, modeling the high level of civility expected in the legal profession.”
Students noted those interactions and paid particular attention to how advocates structured their arguments and responses to judges’ rapid-fire questions.
“This was a fantastic opportunity to watch how appellate lawyers handle oral arguments and apply that knowledge to our own oral arguments for our legal writing class,” said Elizabeth Rowell L’26, a Leadership Fellow who graduated from the University of North Carolina at Wilmington. “Even though it can be intimidating to speak in front of a judge, oral arguments are really just an opportunity to convince others that your arguments are legally persuasive. Thinking about lawyering in these simpler terms helps reduce the anxiety we all feel.”
Elizabeth Gregory L’26 admired the legal prowess displayed by counsel as they responded to judges’ lines of questioning “with skill and grace.” It will influence the way she approaches her own presentations during graded oral arguments this week. Gregory graduated from Duke University and plans a legal career in public defense.
“While an effective opening statement is important, it is more important to know the case, the facts, and the legal arguments on both sides,” Gregory said. “You may never get to finish your beautifully crafted introduction, but you most certainly will be tested on your ability to move fluidly through a discussion of the factual and legal issues.”
About Elon Law
Elon Law in downtown Greensboro, North Carolina, is the preeminent school for engaged and experiential learning in law. With a focus on learning by doing, it integrates traditional classroom instruction with a required, full-time residency-in-practice field placement for all full-time students during the winter or spring of their second year. The law school’s distinctive curriculum offers a logically sequenced program of professional preparation and is accomplished in 2.5 years, which provides exceptional value by lowering tuition and permitting graduates early entry into their careers.
Elon Law has graduated more than 1,500 alumni since opening its doors in 2006. Its annual enrollment now tops 440 students and the law school is regularly featured in PreLaw Magazine’s “Best Schools for Practical Training” rankings, placing in the Top 10 for three consecutive years.
The Elon Law Flex Program, a part-time, in-person program of legal study, launched at Elon University’s Charlotte campus in fall 2024. The program is designed to be completed in less than four and up to seven years, tailored to the needs of working professionals.